Re: [eia] One besieged forage roll or many?

["J.J. Young" <jjy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

There are many places in this game where separate corps have to make
individual forage rolls, regardless of the number of factors they contain.
For one corps containing 10 factors in an area, you would have to make 1
forage roll.  If there are 2 corps in the area instead, both containing 5
factors, then you have to make 2 forage rolls, regardless of the fact that
the same number of human beings are present.  In fact, if you have two corps
you get a penalty to your forage roll !  I think the exact same principle
applies to foraging inside a besieged city;  the rules never state that
foraging for besieged corps is different in this way, although it seems like
a big enough difference that I would definitely think the rules would say
so.

I think that since 7.4.5.2 uses the language "besieged garrison and/or
corps" this definitely implies the possibility of multiple forage rolls
inside the same city, or they just would have said "garrison" or "occupying
forces".  I'm not sure what relevance 7.5.4.1 has at all.  Please explain
more fully.

-JJY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kyle H" <menexenus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: [eia] One besieged forage roll or many?


>     Although JJ says "Definitely YES," I say just as forcefully
"Definitely
> NO."  Let me try to illustrate why I think his interpretation makes no
> sense.  Suppose the Syria corps is at its beginning strength of 5 inf and
6
> cav, and suppose it is sitting in Damascus.  If it is besieged alone, it
> will roll one die at 1-.  Average losses will be 2.5 factors, maximum
losses
> will be 5 factors.  Now suppose that the very same corps had detached its
> infantry as a garrison prior to being besieged.  So we have *exactly* the
> same forces in Damascus - 5 inf. and 6 cav. - but this time the corps
> contains the 6 cav. and the 5 inf. are detached as a garrison.  Now, under
> JJ's suggestion, the owner of Syria will have to make 2 forage rolls, both
> at 1-.  Average losses will now be 5 factors and maximum losses will be
10.
>     Does this make any sense at all?  If so, I can't see how.  In this
> example, we have exactly the same human beings in Damascus; they are
simply
> organized differently.  Why should one mode of organization entail twice
as
> many losses as the other?  (I'm not just asking rhetorically.  If anyone
can
> answer this question for me, I'd appreciate it.)
>     Because of the implausibility of this interpretation, I think all the
> inhabitants of the city are meant to be treated in the aggregate, not as
> individual garrisons or corps.  Conveniently, this interpretation gets a
> great deal of support from the language in 7.5.4.1.
>
>     In order to get more perspective on this issue, I have posted this
very
> question to the Empires in Harm email list.  I'll let you know what
response
> it receives.  (Maybe seeing what other people do will help.)
>
> kdh
>
> P.S. BTW, thanks to JJ for his last comment about the single noun
"garrison"
> used in 7.5.4.2.  I think that's very helpful in solidifying the idea that
> all factors in a city (that are not in a corps) count as a single
garrison.
> Of course, if I'm right, then counting garrisons won't make any
difference.
> But if I'm wrong, then it will.
>
>
> > > ISSUE 3A:  BESIEGED SUPPLY.  Does each besieged corps and each
besieged
> > > garrison within the same city have to roll *separately* against the
> city's
> > > besieged supply value?
> > >     - The rules are ambiguous on this issue depending on one's
> > > interpretation of the wording.  (See 7.4.5 and 7.4.5.1.)
> > >     - In the past, we have said YES.
> > >     - My recommendation is NO.
> >
> > Definitely YES, although all factors in a city not in a corps are part
of
> a
> > single city garrison (note the unambiguous single noun "garrison" in
> > 7.4.5.2).
>
>
>
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