Jamie Dallaire on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:50:04 -0700 (MST)

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Re: [s-d] [s-b] [MoC] nweek 140 voting results

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Geoffrey Spear <geoffspear@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Jamie Dallaire
>  <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Geoffrey Spear <geoffspear@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>  >
>  > >  Ministry of Society, please be advised that the following Proposals
>  >  >  affected players' attributes:
>  >  >  http://b.nomic.net/index.php/Proposals/0386
>  >  >  http://b.nomic.net/index.php/Proposals/0383
>  >
>  >  With regards to 383... Since our Minister was a Player known as Wooble
>  >  at the time this proposal was submitted, then ceased to be a Player,
>  >  then once again became a Player known as Wooble:
>  >
>  >  Does this Proposal actually affect him? I don't think so. Arguments, anyone?
>  I'd say that the instructions found in a Proposal are evaluated at the
>  instant the Proposal Passes; Rule 4E15 is fairly unambiguously worded.
>   The state of the game when the Proposal was actually submitted is
>  irrelevant, and to make changes based on it would in a lot of cases
>  constitute retroactivity.
>  I see this as analogous to the situation of changing rule numbers such
>  that the wrong rules get amended.  That was clearly legal, if a
>  complete pain in the butt.

So... I'm not sure what you're saying. We are evaluating the proposal
right now, indeed. But the proposal (right now) refers to the player
known as Wooble when the Proposal was submitted. Is that Player the
same as the current Wooble or not?

We have to be able to at least -refer- to past gamestate (e.g. at the
time of a proposal's submission). Think of when the Knights who say B
won by Tomfoolery, for example. The winning proposal mentioned each
knight by name and specified that it meant those players who had those
names at such and such a time. Had they not been able to do that, you
could simply have changed your player name to Codae and gained
yourself a win.

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