Daniel Lepage on 27 Jan 2004 22:41:36 -0000


[Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] CFIs



On Jan 27, 2004, at 4:44 PM, Glotmorf wrote:

Not that I'm the judge or anything, but here are some
thoughts...

--- Zarpint Jeremy Cook <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I make the following CFI:
{{
Statement:

1. Actions take place upon reaching a Public Forum
regardless of
recognition by the Administrator if the Clock is on.
2. The following actions take place upon reaching a
Public Forum,
regardless of recognition by the Administrator, if
the Clock is off:
Players joining
Players forfeiting

That's two statements; I don't think this is a legal CFI.

<snip>

}}

Rules 3 and 14 aren't really in conflict in this case.
 R14 says an entity becomes a player by posting to the
public forum; r3 says postings to the public forum
made when the clock is off are recognized in sequence
when the clock is on.  One isn't necessarily trying to
override the other.

It's perhaps worth noting that in r14 forfeitures
overriding the clock being off had to be mentioned
explicitly, and no such explicit mention has been made
for new players.

Actually, new players can still join while the clock is off. Rule three states that "If the Clock is Off, any game-related actions *taken by players* are implemented/recognized in the order in which they were recieved when the Clock is turned On." The key bit is that it only applies to actions taken by players, not actions taken by External Forces who are not players. So a nonplayer External Force can join during a ClockStop, but all subsequent actions e takes will take effect when the Clock turns back on.

I make the following CFI:
{{
Statement:

Rule 10 has no effect on the game, other than adding
an additional rule to break.

<snip>

}}

Interestingly, Wonko's argument about actions comes
into play here: r10 is the only thing that actually
defines rules as things that have to be abided by.
Without r10, all the rules could be smeared and BvS
and bd would start another round of Calvinball.

R10 seems to be the thing that makes the game platonic (as opposed to pragmatic). In a platonic game, such as chess, illegal actions are considered never to have occurred - if you try to jump your pawn from E2 to F6, your opponent just says "you can't do that", the pawn gets put back, and the game continues as if it had never even been tried.

In a pragmatic game, such as soccer, illegal actions can happen, and penalties are provided for performing them - the rules say you can't touch the ball with your hands or tackle other players, but they lack the power to actually stop you from doing it; rather, provisions are made by which the other team will profit if you do.

R10 forces this game to be platonic, by declaring that all players *must* obey all rules; this implies that it is impossible to break a rule.

This is why objects such as the Cursed Sushi cannot work - any rule governing what one posts to the public forum must by necessity be pragmatic, as the rules lack the power to stop me from posting unsushified text to the forum. Likewise, society charters that attempt to restrict game actions must be pragmatic, as a society charter cannot actually stop me from, say, making a proposal; but it can punish me by expelling me from the society.

--
Wonko
Award Wonko a Win.
-----[[BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK]}-----
Version: 3.1
GU/O d-(++)(?) s+:+ a--->+++ C++>++++>$ UB+>++++ P--@ L+>+++ E>++ W++(+++) N+{((++]]}}) o?>++++ K? w------- O? M++ V- PS@ PE-@ Y-- PGP- t+ 5 X R+ tv--@ b+++@ DI++++ D G++ e*>++++ !h r++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

_______________________________________________
spoon-discuss mailing list
spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss