bd on 21 Dec 2003 22:08:31 -0000


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Re: [spoon-discuss] Response to SkArcher, spell it right guys


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On Sunday 21 December 2003 04:59 pm, Zarpint Jeremy Cook wrote:
> The Admin during this SOE is Wonko. Eir exact words were:
> "if nobody objects
> to using bnomic-public as the emergency forum and having me be
> emergency admin by midnight today UTC (six O'Clock on the 15th for
> those in the states), we will assume that everyone agrees to it."

r0 says:
2. A Forum is established. The Procedure depends upon the availability of a 
means for players and an Administrator to communicate (hereafter in this rule 
known as "The Forum"). If a Forum does not exist or is not available, players 
will establish one by contacting one another and agreeing upon a new Forum. 
If a new Forum cannot be agreed upon, the Game ends.

3. An Administrator is established. If an Administrator does not exist or is 
not available, players will establish one from amongst themselves via the 
Forum. If an Administrator cannot be agreed upon, the Game ends.

While Wonko *may* be the Administrator (is the r0 one the same as the rest of 
the game), neither e nor r0 specified a *Public* forum, merely a forum for r0 
uses.

> Rule 16: "The Administrator may designate a Forum private only if it is not
> the sole extant public Forum."
>
> The other rules don't currently go hang during an SOE, actually. They
> couldn't, since they define a Ballot, for instance. And nowhere in r0 does
> it state that the other rules don't apply.
>
> You're right: only the Admin (Wonko here) can designate a Forum. E did,
> and it had to have been public.
>
> > > By intervening time, I meant, e.g., declaring to join the game at time
> > > 0, voting at time 1,
> > > and the clock starting at time 2.
> > >
> > > Voting is affected by my status as a player.
> >
> > Your actions take place in the order they were recieved - I belive it has
> > (just recently) been accepted that the recieved timestamp of elipsis.cx
> > determines the order (see the recent disscussion caused in Go by Ians
> > machine having a clock that is slower than mine)
>
> The problem is rule 14, which says that one becomes a Player not when eir
> action is received, but when e posts a message to a Public Forum. And at
> all times, SOE or not, there needs to be at least one.
>
> BTW-clock starts 7 PM tonight, actually.
>
> Zarpint
>
>
> Zarpint
>
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, SkArcher wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:30:13 -0500, Zarpint Jeremy Cook
> >
> > <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, SkArcher wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:50:44 -0500, Zarpint Jeremy Cook
> > >>
> > >> <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >> > Well, Bnomic-Public is a Forum. It is either Private or Public by
> > >> > rule 16 (unless that rule is overruled by rule 0). Actions can only
> > >> > be
> > >>
> > >> taken
> > >>
> > >> > in a Public Forum, also by rule 16 (unless that is overruled by rule
> > >>
> > >> 0).
> > >>
> > >> > So the options are:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. It's Public (and I am a player)
> > >> > 2. It's Private (and I am not)
> > >> > 3. It's neither, because r0 overrules r16 saying that either 1 or 2
> > >> > is true.
> > >> >
> > >> > The only textual support I see for any of this is that some actions
> > >>
> > >> are
> > >>
> > >> > taken
> > >> > in it, suggesting it is Public. Ideally we would want case 3, but I
> > >>
> > >> don't
> > >>
> > >> > see r0 saying that the Forum is Public, Private, or neither, so
> > >>
> > >> there's
> > >>
> > >> > no
> > >> > conflict in that respect AFAIK.
> > >> >
> > >> > The best solution, I think:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. I will be recognized when the Clock comes on, and it doesn't
> > >> > affect the vote
> > >> > either way right now.
> > >>
> > >> you won't be, as you will have made no declaration in a Public Fora.
> > >> You need to post to spoon-business
> > >
> > > You didn't address my argument that the Emergency Forum is Public.
> > > Anyway, I will redeclare to spoon-business. (And I wouldn't let 9.8
> > > days go by without being officially recognized.) :)
> >
> > I don't think it is. Only the Admin (dave) can recognise a public forum,
> > and e must do so explicitly, which e has not. And even dave must abide by
> > the rules, which state that the clock goes off when an SoE kicks in,
> > after which point the rest of the ruleset can go hang as far as r0 is
> > concerned
> >
> > > By intervening time, I meant, e.g., declaring to join the game at time
> > > 0, voting at time 1,
> > > and the clock starting at time 2.
> > >
> > > Voting is affected by my status as a player.
> >
> > Your actions take place in the order they were recieved - I belive it has
> > (just recently) been accepted that the recieved timestamp of elipsis.cx
> > determines the order (see the recent disscussion caused in Go by Ians
> > machine having a clock that is slower than mine)
> >
> > > R0 exists to allow the game to continue when it otherwise couldn't,
> > > like the Admin being out of contact in this case.
> >
> > Agreed. But that doesn't make it a public forum. Hence why the r0
> > explicitly states it is there in case of hosting troubles, among other
> > things.
> >
> > SkArcher
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > spoon-discuss mailing list
> > spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss

- -- 
bd
I need another lawyer like I need another hole in my head.
		-- Fratianno
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